Thanks for all the feedback everyone! We're in these threads listening, and it helps to hear what you think -- the good and the bad! -- as we keep working hard on the product.
You’re a great company and what you’ve done so far is incredible. I’m a full time writer thanks to your platform. But what has made you great is you haven’t played the same attention economy games as other platforms. Your core creators are *artists* not simply *content creators*. Artists will jump ship if this place becomes just another heavily metricated, gamified, winner-takes-all space like all of the web 2.0 social media spaces.
Thanks for the thoughtful feedback. I strongly agree that we don't want to reproduce the attention economy games -- in fact that's why Substack exists in the first place!
It’s my pleasure. I feel emotionally as well as professionally invested in this company (as it is currently keeping a roof over my head). I’m just some guy without a literature degree, a former NYT byline or other credentials and prior success in writing. As such I feel like I have my ear to the ground on this. If there’s anyway me offering further 2c on any of this would be helpful feel free to get in touch.
More gamification is how you will end up attracting GenZ talent, not less. The fact remains anything that motivates Creators to focus more and strive is a net positive for the community and Substack's bottom lines. A writer that has invested themselves totally in the pursuit of their craft should have credibility that can be verified visually in under 1 second.
What make Kik fun? It was precisely the gamified interface. Substack needs to be fun, the app needs to be more sticky. If there were rankings per sub-category I'd be thrilled. I don't want just a reader. I want an app that can give me more than just the feeling of a reliance on my readers for my income.
The badges are brilliant, and motivating! We aren't here to debate ideology or please everyone, we are here to support good writing and empower Creators to feel dynamic and productive and do what they love.
Contrary to so much of the comments, this is one of my favorite new features. In fact, I wish gamified design was really embodied by Substack better, because GenZ own the future of the Creator Economy - we need to embody the best of their generation and their mobile-native preferences. Philosophy and ideology is not the goal - empowering Creators with a stack of tools is.
Artists are not creators and Substack is a place for true artists.
Artists create from their soul. Creators, "Talent" create to make money and get stuck on an endless content generation treadmill.
While the two terms are used interchangeably, they are not the same. Gamification is everywhere else on the Internet, there are plenty of place to go for that soul crushing vibe. Let's not turn Substack into yet another place like that. Artists don't need a "badge" to motivate themselves because they are already motivated intrinsically.
The artists in GenZ will do just fine without an artificial "badge" to motivate them.
Creators are artist. My hubby for instance is a software developer (creator). He creates code. With this code he creates art, for instance video games.
I'm a Top Writer on Medium. I consider myself as both. According to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, an artist is a person who creates art using skill and creativity.
Instead of messing around with rank by numerical metric, why don’t y’all make it so books published serially to Substack can be read in sequence on the app?
Because right now, they can’t be read in sequence without great difficulty. The app functionality for this key demographic is very poor.
Yes, I've been asking for the ability to toggle posts in ascending or descending order for quite some time. The best solution so far was suggested recently by someone in the Fictionistas group here on Substack. Pin your first chapter to the top of your post list. Insert a button at the bottom of chapter 1 with a link to chapter 2, and so on, so that the reader can easily keep reading. Take a quick look at one of the books (sections) on my Substack and you can see how it works.
Yes exactly. It’s very clunky right now and there is too much friction, especially in the app for a reader to navigate. So many easy solutions too—like the toggle button.
I agree. Some of us are trying to share wisdom that will help people find deeper happiness and inner peace - a surprisingly niche interest. We will never attract the readership of highly contentious, politically-based authors. But does that make what we do less worthy?
Isn’t this also exposing people’s financials? Cause you can multiply their subscription cost by the badge tier? Seems un private to reveal the number of subs on this platform since it’s tied to a monetary figure.
I missed this for months. Idk how. And clearly it’s staying since it’s been around since Nov. Now I’m okay with not publishing as often. Bc I can’t do be part of the rat race.
If Substack is calculating the "% of reading", that will be a better measure of how good the writing is. Instead of adding up "total cash", calculate how much "time" is spent by reader on a writer's articles. If I am reading someone's post 100% that means I love it. "Number of 100% reads" or "total time sent reading" will be better measures.
I don't think it is possible for Email inbox. Only in the app, it's possible. It's a tough metrics fo measure. I thought Substack is no more a newsletter, at least baesed on the new features thay are adding.
like Kindle reading. I like that idea, but worth bearing in mind that some authors don't, because it affects their royalties. I know that doesn't apply here - yet. But if such a measure is introduced, and it's public, it becomes just another badge by any other name. I think newsletters should be judged by their worth to a potential reader, not in comparison with others.
Absolutely agree. Substack's value is in its curatorial nature, and that there is no competition between newsletters (most readers might not even realise that 'Substack' exists as a common platform). Connections only form when the *writers* want them to. It's great for writers and *especially* for readers.
The problem, I suspect, is that this approach doesn't necessarily help grow Substack as a business as fast as they'd like.
Thanks, Simon. I'm sure you're right about Substack's motives. It's such a shame, because for me the community aspects and the mutual helping out are what makes Substack stand out from others. I also wonder if the badges thing will dampen down collaboration to some extent. I'm thinking that I don't constantly think about how many subscribers other people have, but if I had it 'thrown in my face' all the time that X has a purple badge, and therefore a mega subscription base, I'm not sure if I'd feel confident enough to approach them to ask if they'd be interested in a collaboration.
I don't think the two things are mutually exclusive: it's just a tricky needle to thread for Substack. But they've been pretty clever about everything so far!
I get what you're saying about confidence of networking with 'bigger' writers, but that's been the case for a while as newsletters already indicated free/paid subscriber levels via text, if not a badge.
True, but apart from when you go to their 'subscribe' page I don't think you see that. But you're right. I suppose I just have an objection to badges in this context!
Within the current gestalt this makes total sense. Growing a business in current environment has got to be tough - especially growing one amidst Silicon Valley with motivations to help us as human beings form the world we want our children to live it. It is a tall order. I would like to know which Cloud platform SubStack uses.
I get a dopamine boost every time someone subscribes, and a drop every time they unsubscribe (so I've turned off notifications about the latter!). But I know what you mean, badges seems like a further step in that direction :-(
Technically tricky, I imagine. 'Time spent reading' would also encourage people to write unnecessarily long articles - and would penalise short-form writers, comics/sketch writers/illustrators and so on. It's a tricky problem!
Yesterday I was listening to Lenny's Podcast with Sachin Monga, and I remember the point being made that you had some 'exciting new features for readers' coming soon.
I'm assuming this is one of them - the idea being that readers are in control and can vote with their wallets so to speak on what they support and like. The consumer-driven approach to product growth can be a powerful way to increase engagement, but systematically we've seen how things go for creatives when it comes to marketplace acceptance. The value of creativity is too abstract to simplify into a transaction.
If writers and artists were truly valued for their contributions to society, Substack wouldn't be a platform - we'd already have ways of rewarding those contributions. I think most readers want to support creativity, but they legitimately don't have any meaningful metrics to do so. It is much easier to just seek a creator with a well-established audience. But the big names and numbers garner an outsized respect - the psychological impact affects everyone negatively as it inherently places more social and economic value on one over others.
I'm pro-capitalist in a lot of ways, and I understand that you're trying to make money here. I also admire the fact that you are actively encouraging writers on how to hustle. What I don't like is the way this feature rewards that game over the creation of art.
The percentage of 100% read (i.e. how many people read your work to the end) would be a decent metric if we have to have metrics and badges and all the rest of it. Seems harder to game and seems to reward quality writing regardless of number of subs. I dunno, just thinking out loud here.
Yes, this is critically important. Any sense SubStack is promoting writers based on numbers and sales will hurt good writing. Writing because you must is very different from writing because you want money. I am not against making money and being an entrepreneur at all. But how we all go about it is critical. Many will be quick to detect and reject becoming potential slaves to the system.
Definitely, KW. I think that somehow the badges thing introduces another dynamic, an unhealthy one. I'm still working this out for myself, but I don't have a problem with writing on Substack in the hope of earning some money. But hoping to get enough subscribers to merit a coloured badge, even though it amounts to the same thing in a way, seems like an unnecessary diversion.
Interesting. I agree. Feels like elementary school stars for good behavior. Writing isn't always about numbers - it is about ideas, free speech, and communicaton.
I think the overall request is that Substack find a way to create equity. If Substack can create a way for everyone (from the worst of writers to the best of writers) to gain a following... I think you’d be on to something. And it might be the most dangerously sublime and exciting thing to happen in the history of media. Somehow though, I think Substack can do it!
Thanks, KW. I think the equity thing doesn't work anyway. If someone who clearly can't write very well ends up having some sort of apparently-undeserved prominence, people are going to wonder how that happened. All such measures end up devaluing the currency, so to speak -- at least, that's my opinion!
At the risk of sounding like an intellectual snob or something, I don't see why bad writing, however defined, should be rewarded artificially. I think Herbert Spencer's idea of the survival of the fittest should apply.
I am glad you are listening, because this news is so dispiriting, especially since I came here just to escape the algorithms dominating social media and Google. These algos are killing real creativity. As a reader, I have to wade through tonnes of marketing listicles on Google just to get to some authentic content from a real person. Substack has removed that difficulty from me, and I enjoy my weekend mornings reading my Substacks. I rarely pay for stuff online, but I'm finding myself supporting writers by paying for them.
Introducing this will make it harder for me to find new, rising newsletters. I tend to gravitate towards them as they are refreshing and raw. Don't tell me I have to go through the same thing here, wading through hundreds of checkmarked Substacks to get to the newbies?
As a writer just starting out on this platform, it is dispiriting news. I want to be able to write content without worrying about needing to get a checkmark so that I'll be read/seen. I like the current organic recommendation system. It has allowed to discover new newsletters that give me joy.
Three years on Substack and still I'm just the nerdy writing girl in high school with a few close friends watching the popular kids do all the great things and win all the badges.
I think every writer feels this way! There is always something else to strive for, no matter how much "success" you find. That's why you have to tune it out and stay true to the work and our own specific goals. It's something I've been thinking about a lot lately. Here's a great Substack that talks about exactly that from Sari Botton: https://adventuresinjournalism.substack.com/p/confessions-of-a-reluctant-gatekeeper
I came to Substack so people could see my writing. It was an exhaustive search through all other platforms. I did so much research to find the right fit. I didn't have subscribers when I came here. Now I do. I'm so thankful for that. I've made so many friends here.
I don't think this badge system is very fair. It seems to me that those with badges will climb to the top. I look for people who I enjoy reading their writing, not badges.
What is a bestseller as you say? It seems to me, it's only those who have paid subscribers. Just because they are a bestseller, doesn't mean they are the perfect newsletter to subscribe to. And might not even be an interest to you. What about free publications?
It seems like you keep adding more features but never ask any of us what our opinions are of this. You started the poll option. Maybe you should put a poll up on all these "so-called features".
You recently changed how we receive replies to our posts and likes. I emailed support about it. Did I receive an answer to my question? Nope, that was on 11/8/22. It says on the script email that "a member of our support team will be in touch soon". 5 days later, nothing.
How about offering badges based on IMPACT to someone’s life rather than the usual economy metrics that reproduce the same old hierarchies as other platforms?
Recently, a reader posted a huffy comment to Dan Rather. She had multiplied his subscription price by his number of subscribers and questioned if he needs more money. I responded that she calculated all subscribers, not just paid subscribers. She also probably hadn't calculated that he shares payments with his assistant(s). So maybe some readers wouldn't subscribe to be-badged writers due to an economic fairness evaluation.
Hi there! I have been on the substack for less than a week, and I love it so far. I came here because it seemed to be a content platform instead of a platform where only the ones that create for profits and analytics matter and rank. I hope that stays true.
As much as I love the platform so far, I can't help but think it would benefit writers and readers more to invest in more valuable tools in the post editor (like a table of contents and the ability to center text) than worry about badges that segregate creators.
I may lack the purpose of the badges because I only see them as beneficial to let potential readers know who is more "successful" on the platform instead of finding content that may interest them.
And by success, I mean who can obtain the most paid subscribers.
Anyways - just my two cents. I am happy to be part of the substack community and want to help make it better.
* (adding edit) Perhaps a badge that reflects reader engagement is a more valuable metric to reward, like someone who reads (scrolls) the entire article? Anyway, just a thought.
Hi Chris! Glad to meet you. Thanks for joining this discussion. As a writer - I love SubStack. I have heard your reasons for forming the company. Believe many of us here though are a bit wary of trusting Big Tech companies. (In addition to governments, corporations and institutions, lol.). Badges could be useful if they are used for the right motivations and intents. Please continue this discussion. It is perhaps one of the most important of our times. If you, your company and employees, who back us as writers, have the right motivations and intents we will see that. Actions speak loud - and words.
I think these are useful. Not everyone makes Substack their full time job, but some do and it reflects the broader publishing industry language of bestsellers, which can help make a newsletter look more professional. Just my two cents as a person trying to make a living on here.
Please do not turn Substack into twitter. This is my safe space where I enjoy the luxury of reading beautiful words from many fabulous writers. It doesn’t matter to me if it is free or a subscription. I never look at how many subscribe to a writer. If you have 4 subscribers or 40000 it makes no difference to me. I just like the writing! The number of subscribers is relatively meaningless except to the writer. I am happy for writers who have a lot of subscribers. It gives them confidence and I am happy to pay to read their writing, just like I would pay to buy a book or a magazine subscription. But to check mark them based on subscriptions tarnishes the appeal of the writer to me in someway. Perhaps it’s a twitter hangover, but that’s how I feel. It just doesn’t feel good.
Yes, agreed. Many of us are here because we became disillusioned with corporate publishers, mainstream media, universities, governments, corporations and institutions.
I love everything Substack is doing for writers. Truly, I appreciate it. But I think the top selling badge might go a little bit too far into turning this into something else. I mean, there’s no doubt that we’re all here too hopefully make some money, but I’d like the “writing first” aspect of it. This goes a bit too far toward “making money” first.
Agreed. I don't really see, as someone who would not be earning a badge, how it would inspire me to grow. It just feels kind of shitty. I think it's pretty obvious who is making money and who is not (they already say how many paid subscribers people have without a badge, which I already find off-putting), and usually the people who have badges possess something that I do not, and perhaps will not have at any point, such as a major literary career or massive following. It feels kind of like Pelaton :)
As a quick aside, everybody should read Sarah Wheeler bc she's so smart and funny and cool and if I had badges to give out she'd get every single one of them but they'd be like super gaudy with lots of tassels.
Well, based on what Garrett has said I'm going to look at your newsletter, Sarah -- which only goes to show, I think, that word-of-mouth has a lot more going for it than badges and all that kind of stuff.
Yes, I see this "obj" square in more and more places. I assume it's an emoji (or a set of emoji) that is specific to a phone they use but can't be read by other machines.
I really dislike this. Hope you will reconsider. It seems with each update, substack is becoming more and more like a social media company, competitive and having us rank against each other.
I don't know about this. It seems like a way to get writers to chase the badges, which is good for Substack, the company, but I'm not sure what the incentive is for the writers themselves. "Look how many paid subscribers I have" is not something I would really want to say aloud, which is what the badge would effectively do, and it feels somewhat counter to building community with other writers by establishing visible tiers. I could be wrong!
Our intention here was not to change the incentives -- there is already an incentive to get paid subscribers! -- but to help make this legible in a way that is useful to readers and writers.
But I hear what you're saying, and we'll take it into account.
I can understand logically why you would think this makes sense. If you were dealing with ‘logical’ people. But you aren’t you’re dealing with writers. Artists. Weirdos (in the best way).
By which I mean of course we want to make money but we are for the most part sensitive feelers. And broadcasting your material success with an overt badge isn’t cool in this world. Popularity and artistic greatness do not necessarily go hand in hand. They can do but it’s not an absolute correlation.
When it said ‘hundreds or paid subs’ on my acc that was okay because it was subtle. But overt signalling and the creation of a tier system like this isn’t. I know this sounds like hipster nonsense but trust me on this. Substacks success to date has been predicated on having a reputation for quality writers and thinkers. Badges will (subconsciously perhaps) make people water down their work in the hope of securing dopamine and shiny objects. Or it will make them give up entirely if they don’t succeed in these material terms.
I hope people will back me up on this and show I’m not spouting nonsense.
Well said. It's tacky like everything that comes out of the digital world. I know substack is a product created by the same type of people that made Twitter, but I was hoping to get away from the Marvel brain stuff for a bit.
Exactamente porque creo que me falta mucho para llfgar a suscripciones pagas. Y esto consigue desilucionarme un poco. Es como cuando en la escuela te decian: los primeros 10 tienen A
That's understandable, and thank you sincerely for hearing me and everyone commenting here! When I first joined Substack, I was essentially fleeing the media industry that treated everything like a numbers game. It was all about clicks, view count, and metrics like that. I was even pretty good at it, and it nonetheless wore me down. I'm anxious about hustle culture having too much influence here, because I do see myself as a creator trying to bring art and writing to a public medium and make meaningful connections with my audience. I don't think this feature is a huge deal, but that's why I'm reluctant about it. When it becomes all about money and views, the good stuff goes away, at least in my experience. Thank you again!
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I fail to see how it is "useful to readers and writers." Writers already know how many paid subs they have, and that information shouldn't make any difference to readers, who would presumably be reading due the quality of the writers' offerings, not their financial situation.
Give different badges based on what percentage of people read a persons work to the end, if you must give badges at all. A hierarchy of writing quality and reader loyalty which can’t be gamed.
If a writer has 50 readers but they are all devoted hardcore fans I’m gonna check that writer out. But if a writer has 50000 casual readers who are following hype I’m not interested. These current badges reward the latter over the former in my opinion.
(And yes I would switch my white checkmark for one based on this system, because I wanted to be judged based on craft and not number of subs)
As someone who writes as a solo act for a narrow professional community, I am already “competing” with Substacks that have 5+ writers combining to build businesses. Good for them. But the reason I have been happy here is that Substack creates a level
playing field for the work. If Substack creates hierarchy in this way, it can only damage those of us who don’t have the highest tiers of paid subs. In the parlance of my industry, We smaller draws become the “indies” and others, spending to grow beyond the writing itself, becomes the “majors.” And that would suck.
The difference here (so far) is that there are no algorithmic benefits to 'gaming' the system, as on other social platforms and Medium. Aiming for 'top tier' status on those platforms could be done through SEO-like optimisations and cynical grabs at virality. That doesn't really work on Substack, it's still very reliant on writing something genuinely decent and attracting legit readers.
THAT SAID. Some of these new features are edging closer and closer towards more of a united 'social' platform, rather than the isolated oases that we currently have. I do worry that Substack will at some point tip over into being a social platform rather than a writing tool.
The app was the first thing that got me worried: it pulls the readers into a corporate ecosystem, and rather traps writers within the platform.
I'm still very optimistic and positive about Substack - it's fantastic. That's why I'm so nervous about every new feature. :)
I feel exactly the same way. None of these features are a dealbreaker in isolation- and I really don’t want to be Chicken Little about all of this- but they do seem to point towards a certain direct which I am apprehensive about.
See this is the thing, if we were ‘normal’ people I’d be over the moon. But being a writer my reaction to the checkmark is ‘am I a sell out?’, ‘Have I fallen off?’ Hahaha
JP, it's worth noting that they already say who has hundreds or thousands of paid subscribers right next to your name/publication whenever it comes up, they just dont have the icon. I dont know when that happened, but dont love it either.
Yes, you're raising another very good point. Why would anyone want to advertise how many paid subscribers they have? It can only lead to trouble in my opinion.
To elaborate on my point, this platform is excellent BECAUSE it’s not a competition. Implementing checks would turn into Medium, and I dislike Medium for that reason. The scales of balance will be thrown off. Writers already have imposter syndrome, and we don’t need more of it.
You turn art into a competition like this and you end up with clickbait infotainment. The same as what you find everywhere else. Substacks edge is its (deserved) reputation for being the home of quality, thoughtful writing.
That’s absolutely true. Not only that but I guarantee those that pop up In a search query without badges will now be dismissed as “unreliable” sources of information.
You hit the nail on the head with that one; because that appears to me to be the exact perception that is going to happen. Some people will recognize the nuance, but most readers stumbling around here aren't going to recognize that.
Absolutely. I love this community so much and I’m crying on the inside... there’s enough self-doubt and criticism in me at the feeling of not having attained my 100th free subscriber let alone not having a single paid subscriber LET ALONE not having one of these badges for having hundreds of paid subscribers LET ALONE.... you get the point. 😵💫
Exactly!! I don’t need a badge to tell me I love what I’m already doing for free just because I want to. If Big SubStack is losing money, I’m willing to chip in a few bux at year’s end so they can pay necessary employees and keep the lights on, but I don’t need a checkmark for that either.
The quality of the work and how it lines up with your own standards is what matters. Hierarchies like this will make people forget that and discourage them. Or turn them into hacks.
Rich get richer problem. Good for Substack, but will encourage readers to overlook emerging writers in favor of established names. That's already an uphill battle that'll be made worse with this gimmick.
Why not let people's writing speak for itself? Why must every corner of the internet be turned into this professional-class status symbol pissing contest? Just because Twitter turned their checkmark into a free-for-all circus doesn't mean Substack should create a new digital caste system of their own.
Precisely. The value of art (and I think many here, including myself are trying to put out art rather than simply ‘content’) is not judged solely by market value.
Second order effects of this initiative is people ruthlessly working out what (corny) tricks and hacks drive engagement and number of subs. Eventually you end up with the equivalent of those open mouthed youtube thumbnails etc.
The fact is, Substack paid money up-front to most of the "successful" Substacks. These were not people who built an audience from scratch, nor built an audience here, they spent years or even decades writing for established mainstream institutions, and Substack wooed them away with cash. Now they want a way to promote their in-house products. It's Amazon for writing.
Team is on a tear (serious kudos), but this one is off.
This feels like a dark pattern into nudging paid subs. You’re rewarding a very static metric: money.
Couldn’t agree more on letting readers dictate recognition, but money is myopic and self-serving, paradoxical to all else this incredible platform does.
There are other (and arguably more important) metrics of success and influence here (opens, reads per piece, engagement, pace of growth, other Substack publication recommendations, etc.)
As a free publication this doesn’t make me want to turn on paid yet, and it makes me question my own significant achievements. This shouldn’t be a feature’s unintentional outcome.
Yes this. I have two publications with very different numbers and proportions of free and paid subscribers. I mean, I write on substack as a platform for sharing my other work and am not at all obsessed with stats like I was when I was spending a lot of time on medium, but the second I read this I was making calculations about “oh, well I’ll still get a check because it’s one per profile and not one per substack” and i hate that because ten minutes ago I didn’t care about a check at all.
I hate the term bestseller, too. It was probably chosen to connect to book bestsellers, but (1) those lists are a result of a lot of gate keeping and (2) it implies people are here to sell rather than to share and connect.
I’m here to share and connect. I don’t need a badge for that, and I don’t need to see anyone else’s, either.
Also. This is a status symbol for the substack community internally. Much like medium top writer status mentioned elsewhere, it means nothing to anyone except other substack writers. Which just further removes us from our readers.
Percentage/number of 100% reads is the best metric if they must insist on giving us badges. Paid subs shows you’re popular, not necessarily artistically good. A celebrity with no writing chops could get an orange/purple badge in 24 hours.
THIS. As a new writer on here, this would be a much more fun way to approach these badges. And if you were paying even the slightest bit of attention to what someone charged for their subscription and saw their readership numbers, you could figure out where they were at in the realm of “success” on Substack.
I joined Substack to give me the impetus to write for an audience, and I'm delighted that I have subscribers who enjoy what I write. I love that you don't show how many subscribers a newsletter has. I'm not thinking of going paid - that's not why I'm here. I am also not writing to compete: I am writing because I want to write, and to do this without any pressure. I love Substack because it's always felt like a level playing field. This idea makes it feel rather different.
A couple of articles ago, Substack groused a little bit about the “rich get richer” mentality that social media promotes. Existing popularity is prioritized in various ways, resulting in a cascading effect for those already established while pretty much ignoring newcomers.
Substack already employs this way of thinking in articles and interviews that only promote established figures and on the discover page that prioritizes established publications. The badge thing is another step in that same direction that all social media does.
What if you turned it around, at least once in a while? What if you promoted lesser known figures? If a paid subscription comes from a small publication or a large one, Substack still gets their part. Wouldn’t that be something different as an example to the industry?
Honestly, I’m getting a little bit put off by the current rapid fire addition of new features to substack. All of it seems to be knee jerk attempts at capitalising on all the stuff that is happening at the bird place ( you can have your own chats here too! you can have a tick here too!). Please don’t let this be another good thing on the internet that got ruined by think-tanky strategies that aim to make this place the new something else.
Sometimes the wise move is to do nothing. The substack infrastructure was in place before chats and badges. They should simply sit back and let the talent here grow the platform. Less is more,
Exactly. I can’t believe that substack is going this way when the “add lots of new features” strategy is the most prominent online disaster right now. Better to be something reliable when all else is falling apart.
I know it’s hard to argue for nothing being better than something (anything!) in the current world, especially in Silicon Valley, but it really is the case quite often.
One thing about tech places (I used to work at MS) is that everything must be constantly modified, updated, accelerated, belled and whistled in the (seemingly insane) desire to never ever let an idea go - or in the fear that some other place will do it first. It's a form of digital gluttony.
One thing I like about Substack is that it feels quite a bit simpler. It does the job it needs to do, allows writer to easily write, publish, and interact. Maybe just let it be and let people flourish for a while.
Beyond that, the whole badge thing seems off. It's going to (like most places on the internet) cause content - not artistic creation - to rule.
I left Medium for exactly that. Everything turned into a race for top writer status which meant more and more commonplace and repetitious posts crossing my feed. I hope Substack will consider reversing this trend. It's time for a new direction and a new dynamic.
Thank you Thomas. I do believe you just made my day. And you said somewhere in this thread about letting things stay simpler and letting people and the platform organically grow. I was sort of riffing off that and am totally with you.
Edit: "Somewhere in this thread" turns out to be right above. Depending on how I open an alert, I don't always see the whole context.
Yes. I like new features once in a while, but at the moment, I really feel that Substack is trying to become a new social media because of what's happening at Twitter's.
Substack, you're not a social media, don't try to become one. You'll lose what made you attractive in the first place and I doubt you'll gain anything from it.
Not a fan of this, tbh. The thing I like about Substack is that the number of subscribers a writer has is not freely available information (something I really dislike about social media). This changes things, and it makes it feel like the playing field isn’t entirely level anymore, which is a bummer!
Thanks for all the feedback everyone! We're in these threads listening, and it helps to hear what you think -- the good and the bad! -- as we keep working hard on the product.
You’re a great company and what you’ve done so far is incredible. I’m a full time writer thanks to your platform. But what has made you great is you haven’t played the same attention economy games as other platforms. Your core creators are *artists* not simply *content creators*. Artists will jump ship if this place becomes just another heavily metricated, gamified, winner-takes-all space like all of the web 2.0 social media spaces.
Thanks for the thoughtful feedback. I strongly agree that we don't want to reproduce the attention economy games -- in fact that's why Substack exists in the first place!
It’s my pleasure. I feel emotionally as well as professionally invested in this company (as it is currently keeping a roof over my head). I’m just some guy without a literature degree, a former NYT byline or other credentials and prior success in writing. As such I feel like I have my ear to the ground on this. If there’s anyway me offering further 2c on any of this would be helpful feel free to get in touch.
That’s precisely why this is a bad idea! Don’t fix something that isn’t broke!
As I once read on a mug in a Buddhist gift shop: Don’t just do something, sit there!
Love it!
It does have the Twitter blue check mark feel...which seems maybe not ideal? A sort of hierarchical vibe.
More gamification is how you will end up attracting GenZ talent, not less. The fact remains anything that motivates Creators to focus more and strive is a net positive for the community and Substack's bottom lines. A writer that has invested themselves totally in the pursuit of their craft should have credibility that can be verified visually in under 1 second.
What make Kik fun? It was precisely the gamified interface. Substack needs to be fun, the app needs to be more sticky. If there were rankings per sub-category I'd be thrilled. I don't want just a reader. I want an app that can give me more than just the feeling of a reliance on my readers for my income.
The badges are brilliant, and motivating! We aren't here to debate ideology or please everyone, we are here to support good writing and empower Creators to feel dynamic and productive and do what they love.
Contrary to so much of the comments, this is one of my favorite new features. In fact, I wish gamified design was really embodied by Substack better, because GenZ own the future of the Creator Economy - we need to embody the best of their generation and their mobile-native preferences. Philosophy and ideology is not the goal - empowering Creators with a stack of tools is.
Artists are not creators and Substack is a place for true artists.
Artists create from their soul. Creators, "Talent" create to make money and get stuck on an endless content generation treadmill.
While the two terms are used interchangeably, they are not the same. Gamification is everywhere else on the Internet, there are plenty of place to go for that soul crushing vibe. Let's not turn Substack into yet another place like that. Artists don't need a "badge" to motivate themselves because they are already motivated intrinsically.
The artists in GenZ will do just fine without an artificial "badge" to motivate them.
Yes!! Yes 👏
I agree, Clint. As you say, artists have intrinsic motivation
Creators are artist. My hubby for instance is a software developer (creator). He creates code. With this code he creates art, for instance video games.
I'm a Top Writer on Medium. I consider myself as both. According to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, an artist is a person who creates art using skill and creativity.
Grotesque. Imagine Hemingway or Joan Didion writing and working via ‘gamification’ theory.
Touché
Gen Z? Is that all you care about?
That is so not true for all genres of writing.
Great word 😏 Apt.
No more caste systems on digital platforms please.
Exactly.
Instead of messing around with rank by numerical metric, why don’t y’all make it so books published serially to Substack can be read in sequence on the app?
Because right now, they can’t be read in sequence without great difficulty. The app functionality for this key demographic is very poor.
Details here: https://charlottedune.substack.com/p/do-we-really-want-email-novels?r=8gb2e&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post
Yes, I've been asking for the ability to toggle posts in ascending or descending order for quite some time. The best solution so far was suggested recently by someone in the Fictionistas group here on Substack. Pin your first chapter to the top of your post list. Insert a button at the bottom of chapter 1 with a link to chapter 2, and so on, so that the reader can easily keep reading. Take a quick look at one of the books (sections) on my Substack and you can see how it works.
Yes exactly. It’s very clunky right now and there is too much friction, especially in the app for a reader to navigate. So many easy solutions too—like the toggle button.
I see you've done something similar in your about section!
I also just make a table of contents post and pin that to the top.
I'll take your suggestion over some stupid badge any day. I gave up trying to read a serialized book.
It’s challenging at the moment to read serial books on Substack. I really hope they improve this feature.
✌️Seconded
Yeah I thought that as well. Twitter-style.
Twitter style! That is a shit show to navigate.
I agree. Some of us are trying to share wisdom that will help people find deeper happiness and inner peace - a surprisingly niche interest. We will never attract the readership of highly contentious, politically-based authors. But does that make what we do less worthy?
This exactly
"Some of us are trying to share wisdom that will help people find deeper happiness and inner peace"
This is exactly the aim with my newsletter, "moviewise: Life Lessons From Movies".
Here are a few of my articles on happiness:
Going Through An Existential Crisis?
https://moviewise.substack.com/p/going-through-an-existential-crisis
Be Relentlessly Happy 🤗
https://moviewise.substack.com/p/be-relentlessly-happy
On Good vs Evil or Contentment vs Anger
https://moviewise.substack.com/p/on-good-vs-evil-or-contentment-vs
The Wisdom In "Kung Fu Panda" (2008): Laughing All The Way To Peace, Harmony, and Focus
https://moviewise.substack.com/p/the-wisdom-in-kung-fu-panda
The Meaning Of Life According To The Movies (A Virtual Comedy Film Festival)
https://moviewise.substack.com/p/the-meaning-of-life
Good point!
Isn’t this also exposing people’s financials? Cause you can multiply their subscription cost by the badge tier? Seems un private to reveal the number of subs on this platform since it’s tied to a monetary figure.
Good catch!
Yes. This.
100%
Wonderfully articulated.
💯
I missed this for months. Idk how. And clearly it’s staying since it’s been around since Nov. Now I’m okay with not publishing as often. Bc I can’t do be part of the rat race.
If Substack is calculating the "% of reading", that will be a better measure of how good the writing is. Instead of adding up "total cash", calculate how much "time" is spent by reader on a writer's articles. If I am reading someone's post 100% that means I love it. "Number of 100% reads" or "total time sent reading" will be better measures.
This punishes longer posts and is not about quality regardless.
Exactly. Sometimes things can be said completely in a sentence or two. The rest is just filler.
Excellent suggestion.
That’s a good idea 👍
That's an interesting idea but is it possible to calculate reading time in the email inbox?
I don't think it is possible for Email inbox. Only in the app, it's possible. It's a tough metrics fo measure. I thought Substack is no more a newsletter, at least baesed on the new features thay are adding.
like Kindle reading. I like that idea, but worth bearing in mind that some authors don't, because it affects their royalties. I know that doesn't apply here - yet. But if such a measure is introduced, and it's public, it becomes just another badge by any other name. I think newsletters should be judged by their worth to a potential reader, not in comparison with others.
Absolutely agree. Substack's value is in its curatorial nature, and that there is no competition between newsletters (most readers might not even realise that 'Substack' exists as a common platform). Connections only form when the *writers* want them to. It's great for writers and *especially* for readers.
The problem, I suspect, is that this approach doesn't necessarily help grow Substack as a business as fast as they'd like.
Thanks, Simon. I'm sure you're right about Substack's motives. It's such a shame, because for me the community aspects and the mutual helping out are what makes Substack stand out from others. I also wonder if the badges thing will dampen down collaboration to some extent. I'm thinking that I don't constantly think about how many subscribers other people have, but if I had it 'thrown in my face' all the time that X has a purple badge, and therefore a mega subscription base, I'm not sure if I'd feel confident enough to approach them to ask if they'd be interested in a collaboration.
I don't think the two things are mutually exclusive: it's just a tricky needle to thread for Substack. But they've been pretty clever about everything so far!
I get what you're saying about confidence of networking with 'bigger' writers, but that's been the case for a while as newsletters already indicated free/paid subscriber levels via text, if not a badge.
True, but apart from when you go to their 'subscribe' page I don't think you see that. But you're right. I suppose I just have an objection to badges in this context!
Within the current gestalt this makes total sense. Growing a business in current environment has got to be tough - especially growing one amidst Silicon Valley with motivations to help us as human beings form the world we want our children to live it. It is a tall order. I would like to know which Cloud platform SubStack uses.
I think the entire badging is problematic which intends to make Substack as another social media app with dopamine boosting and gaming features.
I get a dopamine boost every time someone subscribes, and a drop every time they unsubscribe (so I've turned off notifications about the latter!). But I know what you mean, badges seems like a further step in that direction :-(
Technically tricky, I imagine. 'Time spent reading' would also encourage people to write unnecessarily long articles - and would penalise short-form writers, comics/sketch writers/illustrators and so on. It's a tricky problem!
I totally agree with this
Yesterday I was listening to Lenny's Podcast with Sachin Monga, and I remember the point being made that you had some 'exciting new features for readers' coming soon.
I'm assuming this is one of them - the idea being that readers are in control and can vote with their wallets so to speak on what they support and like. The consumer-driven approach to product growth can be a powerful way to increase engagement, but systematically we've seen how things go for creatives when it comes to marketplace acceptance. The value of creativity is too abstract to simplify into a transaction.
If writers and artists were truly valued for their contributions to society, Substack wouldn't be a platform - we'd already have ways of rewarding those contributions. I think most readers want to support creativity, but they legitimately don't have any meaningful metrics to do so. It is much easier to just seek a creator with a well-established audience. But the big names and numbers garner an outsized respect - the psychological impact affects everyone negatively as it inherently places more social and economic value on one over others.
I'm pro-capitalist in a lot of ways, and I understand that you're trying to make money here. I also admire the fact that you are actively encouraging writers on how to hustle. What I don't like is the way this feature rewards that game over the creation of art.
The percentage of 100% read (i.e. how many people read your work to the end) would be a decent metric if we have to have metrics and badges and all the rest of it. Seems harder to game and seems to reward quality writing regardless of number of subs. I dunno, just thinking out loud here.
I believe it's a pretty good metric for sure. Very few of the Substacks I follow would earn this badge to be honest, haha.
I believe there are tech limitations to this though - readers on email instead of Substack aren't measured by this metric and likely never will be.
Yes, this is critically important. Any sense SubStack is promoting writers based on numbers and sales will hurt good writing. Writing because you must is very different from writing because you want money. I am not against making money and being an entrepreneur at all. But how we all go about it is critical. Many will be quick to detect and reject becoming potential slaves to the system.
Definitely, KW. I think that somehow the badges thing introduces another dynamic, an unhealthy one. I'm still working this out for myself, but I don't have a problem with writing on Substack in the hope of earning some money. But hoping to get enough subscribers to merit a coloured badge, even though it amounts to the same thing in a way, seems like an unnecessary diversion.
Interesting. I agree. Feels like elementary school stars for good behavior. Writing isn't always about numbers - it is about ideas, free speech, and communicaton.
LOL re badges in elementary school! Yes!
I think the overall request is that Substack find a way to create equity. If Substack can create a way for everyone (from the worst of writers to the best of writers) to gain a following... I think you’d be on to something. And it might be the most dangerously sublime and exciting thing to happen in the history of media. Somehow though, I think Substack can do it!
💯🪄
🫡
Yes. Ab-so-lute-ly. 100%.
Thanks, KW. I think the equity thing doesn't work anyway. If someone who clearly can't write very well ends up having some sort of apparently-undeserved prominence, people are going to wonder how that happened. All such measures end up devaluing the currency, so to speak -- at least, that's my opinion!
For sure. They will try to sink us with numbers. Doesn't work for us lowly "content creators." Wholly owned and subsidized.
I couldn't agree more. We subsidise our writing by doing that instead of other money-earning activities. Well put.
At the risk of sounding like an intellectual snob or something, I don't see why bad writing, however defined, should be rewarded artificially. I think Herbert Spencer's idea of the survival of the fittest should apply.
I am glad you are listening, because this news is so dispiriting, especially since I came here just to escape the algorithms dominating social media and Google. These algos are killing real creativity. As a reader, I have to wade through tonnes of marketing listicles on Google just to get to some authentic content from a real person. Substack has removed that difficulty from me, and I enjoy my weekend mornings reading my Substacks. I rarely pay for stuff online, but I'm finding myself supporting writers by paying for them.
Introducing this will make it harder for me to find new, rising newsletters. I tend to gravitate towards them as they are refreshing and raw. Don't tell me I have to go through the same thing here, wading through hundreds of checkmarked Substacks to get to the newbies?
As a writer just starting out on this platform, it is dispiriting news. I want to be able to write content without worrying about needing to get a checkmark so that I'll be read/seen. I like the current organic recommendation system. It has allowed to discover new newsletters that give me joy.
Please, please don't do this.
Valid concern for all of us.
@Chris, most of the comments are not in favor of this feature as it is. So, are you going ahead with this?
Three years on Substack and still I'm just the nerdy writing girl in high school with a few close friends watching the popular kids do all the great things and win all the badges.
I think every writer feels this way! There is always something else to strive for, no matter how much "success" you find. That's why you have to tune it out and stay true to the work and our own specific goals. It's something I've been thinking about a lot lately. Here's a great Substack that talks about exactly that from Sari Botton: https://adventuresinjournalism.substack.com/p/confessions-of-a-reluctant-gatekeeper
I came to Substack so people could see my writing. It was an exhaustive search through all other platforms. I did so much research to find the right fit. I didn't have subscribers when I came here. Now I do. I'm so thankful for that. I've made so many friends here.
I don't think this badge system is very fair. It seems to me that those with badges will climb to the top. I look for people who I enjoy reading their writing, not badges.
What is a bestseller as you say? It seems to me, it's only those who have paid subscribers. Just because they are a bestseller, doesn't mean they are the perfect newsletter to subscribe to. And might not even be an interest to you. What about free publications?
It seems like you keep adding more features but never ask any of us what our opinions are of this. You started the poll option. Maybe you should put a poll up on all these "so-called features".
You recently changed how we receive replies to our posts and likes. I emailed support about it. Did I receive an answer to my question? Nope, that was on 11/8/22. It says on the script email that "a member of our support team will be in touch soon". 5 days later, nothing.
How about offering badges based on IMPACT to someone’s life rather than the usual economy metrics that reproduce the same old hierarchies as other platforms?
So far I am SO impressed about what Substack can do! Way to go guys. 😎
Positive feedback and a reliance on the importance of free speech is invaluable. They dance real good so far for a Silicon Valley corporation.
Recently, a reader posted a huffy comment to Dan Rather. She had multiplied his subscription price by his number of subscribers and questioned if he needs more money. I responded that she calculated all subscribers, not just paid subscribers. She also probably hadn't calculated that he shares payments with his assistant(s). So maybe some readers wouldn't subscribe to be-badged writers due to an economic fairness evaluation.
Hi there! I have been on the substack for less than a week, and I love it so far. I came here because it seemed to be a content platform instead of a platform where only the ones that create for profits and analytics matter and rank. I hope that stays true.
As much as I love the platform so far, I can't help but think it would benefit writers and readers more to invest in more valuable tools in the post editor (like a table of contents and the ability to center text) than worry about badges that segregate creators.
I may lack the purpose of the badges because I only see them as beneficial to let potential readers know who is more "successful" on the platform instead of finding content that may interest them.
And by success, I mean who can obtain the most paid subscribers.
Anyways - just my two cents. I am happy to be part of the substack community and want to help make it better.
* (adding edit) Perhaps a badge that reflects reader engagement is a more valuable metric to reward, like someone who reads (scrolls) the entire article? Anyway, just a thought.
Hi Chris! Glad to meet you. Thanks for joining this discussion. As a writer - I love SubStack. I have heard your reasons for forming the company. Believe many of us here though are a bit wary of trusting Big Tech companies. (In addition to governments, corporations and institutions, lol.). Badges could be useful if they are used for the right motivations and intents. Please continue this discussion. It is perhaps one of the most important of our times. If you, your company and employees, who back us as writers, have the right motivations and intents we will see that. Actions speak loud - and words.
I think these are useful. Not everyone makes Substack their full time job, but some do and it reflects the broader publishing industry language of bestsellers, which can help make a newsletter look more professional. Just my two cents as a person trying to make a living on here.
I avoid bestsellers like a plague.
team is looking into it
Please do not turn Substack into twitter. This is my safe space where I enjoy the luxury of reading beautiful words from many fabulous writers. It doesn’t matter to me if it is free or a subscription. I never look at how many subscribe to a writer. If you have 4 subscribers or 40000 it makes no difference to me. I just like the writing! The number of subscribers is relatively meaningless except to the writer. I am happy for writers who have a lot of subscribers. It gives them confidence and I am happy to pay to read their writing, just like I would pay to buy a book or a magazine subscription. But to check mark them based on subscriptions tarnishes the appeal of the writer to me in someway. Perhaps it’s a twitter hangover, but that’s how I feel. It just doesn’t feel good.
I agree with you so much. The worst thing that could happen is this place to become the new Twitter.
Yes, agreed. Many of us are here because we became disillusioned with corporate publishers, mainstream media, universities, governments, corporations and institutions.
Thank you for listening to us. My loyalty to Substack as a platform to voice my thoughts quadruples just based on knowing I and others here are heard.
I love everything Substack is doing for writers. Truly, I appreciate it. But I think the top selling badge might go a little bit too far into turning this into something else. I mean, there’s no doubt that we’re all here too hopefully make some money, but I’d like the “writing first” aspect of it. This goes a bit too far toward “making money” first.
Agreed. I don't really see, as someone who would not be earning a badge, how it would inspire me to grow. It just feels kind of shitty. I think it's pretty obvious who is making money and who is not (they already say how many paid subscribers people have without a badge, which I already find off-putting), and usually the people who have badges possess something that I do not, and perhaps will not have at any point, such as a major literary career or massive following. It feels kind of like Pelaton :)
As a quick aside, everybody should read Sarah Wheeler bc she's so smart and funny and cool and if I had badges to give out she'd get every single one of them but they'd be like super gaudy with lots of tassels.
haha stop. and yours would have a little hat with an esoteric but somehow relatable image on it!
Well, based on what Garrett has said I'm going to look at your newsletter, Sarah -- which only goes to show, I think, that word-of-mouth has a lot more going for it than badges and all that kind of stuff.
"No, no... you see, there's a story behind the thing on my hat! Wait, you'll love it... why are you leaving???"
Agree: we know who the heavy-hitters on the platform are; seems superfluous to add the Twitter-like blue check mark ✅
“…shitty.” Thank you!
Totally agree with this comment.
I agree, Sarah, well said.
I completely agree.
What is your ending emoji? Some people's emojis are replaced by an "obj" square.
Yes, I see this "obj" square in more and more places. I assume it's an emoji (or a set of emoji) that is specific to a phone they use but can't be read by other machines.
Touché
I really dislike this. Hope you will reconsider. It seems with each update, substack is becoming more and more like a social media company, competitive and having us rank against each other.
I’ve felt similarly; as SS grows it seems to edge slowly closer and closer to other traditional platforms
Yes.
What about writers that don’t charge money for their writing or don’t paywall anything? Are free subscribers not worth noting?
Agreed. My favorite thing about Substack is its focus on writing, and to me it feels like it muddies the water to focus on paid subscribers like this
Solid point
Hmm, this sparks an instant sense of defeat.
Ha! So well put. Yes this.
This for me too.
I hear ya
haha, yup!
I don't know about this. It seems like a way to get writers to chase the badges, which is good for Substack, the company, but I'm not sure what the incentive is for the writers themselves. "Look how many paid subscribers I have" is not something I would really want to say aloud, which is what the badge would effectively do, and it feels somewhat counter to building community with other writers by establishing visible tiers. I could be wrong!
Thank you for this feedback.
Our intention here was not to change the incentives -- there is already an incentive to get paid subscribers! -- but to help make this legible in a way that is useful to readers and writers.
But I hear what you're saying, and we'll take it into account.
I can understand logically why you would think this makes sense. If you were dealing with ‘logical’ people. But you aren’t you’re dealing with writers. Artists. Weirdos (in the best way).
By which I mean of course we want to make money but we are for the most part sensitive feelers. And broadcasting your material success with an overt badge isn’t cool in this world. Popularity and artistic greatness do not necessarily go hand in hand. They can do but it’s not an absolute correlation.
When it said ‘hundreds or paid subs’ on my acc that was okay because it was subtle. But overt signalling and the creation of a tier system like this isn’t. I know this sounds like hipster nonsense but trust me on this. Substacks success to date has been predicated on having a reputation for quality writers and thinkers. Badges will (subconsciously perhaps) make people water down their work in the hope of securing dopamine and shiny objects. Or it will make them give up entirely if they don’t succeed in these material terms.
I hope people will back me up on this and show I’m not spouting nonsense.
Reflects my feelings as well
Well said. It's tacky like everything that comes out of the digital world. I know substack is a product created by the same type of people that made Twitter, but I was hoping to get away from the Marvel brain stuff for a bit.
It’s like when the big purple guy with the metal gloves snapped his finger snd everyone went ‘oh no’. Am I right, guys?
Fully agree. Especially the part about how it will discourage writers who aren't getting paid subs.
Exactamente porque creo que me falta mucho para llfgar a suscripciones pagas. Y esto consigue desilucionarme un poco. Es como cuando en la escuela te decian: los primeros 10 tienen A
I back you up. 100%
"Popularity and artistic greatness do not necessarily go hand in hand"
That is a great summation.
Well said Thomas!
well said!
Word. You got the pulse on this.
100% agree with you Thomas. Great points!
That's understandable, and thank you sincerely for hearing me and everyone commenting here! When I first joined Substack, I was essentially fleeing the media industry that treated everything like a numbers game. It was all about clicks, view count, and metrics like that. I was even pretty good at it, and it nonetheless wore me down. I'm anxious about hustle culture having too much influence here, because I do see myself as a creator trying to bring art and writing to a public medium and make meaningful connections with my audience. I don't think this feature is a huge deal, but that's why I'm reluctant about it. When it becomes all about money and views, the good stuff goes away, at least in my experience. Thank you again!
To me this feature feels like a (potential) omen as much as anything.
‘When it becomes all about money and views, the good stuff goes away,’ sums my worries up perfectly.
Right. Yes. True.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I fail to see how it is "useful to readers and writers." Writers already know how many paid subs they have, and that information shouldn't make any difference to readers, who would presumably be reading due the quality of the writers' offerings, not their financial situation.
Give different badges based on what percentage of people read a persons work to the end, if you must give badges at all. A hierarchy of writing quality and reader loyalty which can’t be gamed.
If a writer has 50 readers but they are all devoted hardcore fans I’m gonna check that writer out. But if a writer has 50000 casual readers who are following hype I’m not interested. These current badges reward the latter over the former in my opinion.
(And yes I would switch my white checkmark for one based on this system, because I wanted to be judged based on craft and not number of subs)
Exactly!!
As someone who writes as a solo act for a narrow professional community, I am already “competing” with Substacks that have 5+ writers combining to build businesses. Good for them. But the reason I have been happy here is that Substack creates a level
playing field for the work. If Substack creates hierarchy in this way, it can only damage those of us who don’t have the highest tiers of paid subs. In the parlance of my industry, We smaller draws become the “indies” and others, spending to grow beyond the writing itself, becomes the “majors.” And that would suck.
Yes
You hit the nail on the head with one phrase... "a level playing field." Once upon a time... Youtube was a level playing field...
When will we hear about a definitive decision on SS’s part re permanently implementing this -- or not?
This this this! People on medium used to chase top writer Status, even if it meant putting our crappy work to get there. Hated it
That’s the core problem. It gamifies it and incentivises putting out what's popular rather than what your heart is telling you to create.
The difference here (so far) is that there are no algorithmic benefits to 'gaming' the system, as on other social platforms and Medium. Aiming for 'top tier' status on those platforms could be done through SEO-like optimisations and cynical grabs at virality. That doesn't really work on Substack, it's still very reliant on writing something genuinely decent and attracting legit readers.
THAT SAID. Some of these new features are edging closer and closer towards more of a united 'social' platform, rather than the isolated oases that we currently have. I do worry that Substack will at some point tip over into being a social platform rather than a writing tool.
The app was the first thing that got me worried: it pulls the readers into a corporate ecosystem, and rather traps writers within the platform.
I'm still very optimistic and positive about Substack - it's fantastic. That's why I'm so nervous about every new feature. :)
I feel exactly the same way. None of these features are a dealbreaker in isolation- and I really don’t want to be Chicken Little about all of this- but they do seem to point towards a certain direct which I am apprehensive about.
Indeed. The Substack designers have been savvy so far, so fingers crossed. The toolset as-is is remarkable.
Also, congratulations on your new bestseller badge. ;)
See this is the thing, if we were ‘normal’ people I’d be over the moon. But being a writer my reaction to the checkmark is ‘am I a sell out?’, ‘Have I fallen off?’ Hahaha
A lot of that gamifying is why I do almost all of my writing here now.
Hate the gamification, not the player.
JP, it's worth noting that they already say who has hundreds or thousands of paid subscribers right next to your name/publication whenever it comes up, they just dont have the icon. I dont know when that happened, but dont love it either.
Yes, you're raising another very good point. Why would anyone want to advertise how many paid subscribers they have? It can only lead to trouble in my opinion.
To elaborate on my point, this platform is excellent BECAUSE it’s not a competition. Implementing checks would turn into Medium, and I dislike Medium for that reason. The scales of balance will be thrown off. Writers already have imposter syndrome, and we don’t need more of it.
You turn art into a competition like this and you end up with clickbait infotainment. The same as what you find everywhere else. Substacks edge is its (deserved) reputation for being the home of quality, thoughtful writing.
That’s absolutely true. Not only that but I guarantee those that pop up In a search query without badges will now be dismissed as “unreliable” sources of information.
You hit the nail on the head with that one; because that appears to me to be the exact perception that is going to happen. Some people will recognize the nuance, but most readers stumbling around here aren't going to recognize that.
Agree
Exactly. It currently feels like a place of genuine connection. Status badges will erode that feeling of community.
Absolutely. I love this community so much and I’m crying on the inside... there’s enough self-doubt and criticism in me at the feeling of not having attained my 100th free subscriber let alone not having a single paid subscriber LET ALONE not having one of these badges for having hundreds of paid subscribers LET ALONE.... you get the point. 😵💫
Exactly!! I don’t need a badge to tell me I love what I’m already doing for free just because I want to. If Big SubStack is losing money, I’m willing to chip in a few bux at year’s end so they can pay necessary employees and keep the lights on, but I don’t need a checkmark for that either.
I’m with you girl <100 subscriber club ✊ represent!
The quality of the work and how it lines up with your own standards is what matters. Hierarchies like this will make people forget that and discourage them. Or turn them into hacks.
Exactly.
Rich get richer problem. Good for Substack, but will encourage readers to overlook emerging writers in favor of established names. That's already an uphill battle that'll be made worse with this gimmick.
Exactly my thoughts. I like Substack BECAUSE it doesn’t place value on the numbers.
This is a good point. It will make it even harder to emerge.
Why not let people's writing speak for itself? Why must every corner of the internet be turned into this professional-class status symbol pissing contest? Just because Twitter turned their checkmark into a free-for-all circus doesn't mean Substack should create a new digital caste system of their own.
Precisely. The value of art (and I think many here, including myself are trying to put out art rather than simply ‘content’) is not judged solely by market value.
Second order effects of this initiative is people ruthlessly working out what (corny) tricks and hacks drive engagement and number of subs. Eventually you end up with the equivalent of those open mouthed youtube thumbnails etc.
The fact is, Substack paid money up-front to most of the "successful" Substacks. These were not people who built an audience from scratch, nor built an audience here, they spent years or even decades writing for established mainstream institutions, and Substack wooed them away with cash. Now they want a way to promote their in-house products. It's Amazon for writing.
You’ve really got me thinking with this one, Jamie. Great comment.
Love this comment.
Team is on a tear (serious kudos), but this one is off.
This feels like a dark pattern into nudging paid subs. You’re rewarding a very static metric: money.
Couldn’t agree more on letting readers dictate recognition, but money is myopic and self-serving, paradoxical to all else this incredible platform does.
There are other (and arguably more important) metrics of success and influence here (opens, reads per piece, engagement, pace of growth, other Substack publication recommendations, etc.)
As a free publication this doesn’t make me want to turn on paid yet, and it makes me question my own significant achievements. This shouldn’t be a feature’s unintentional outcome.
Yes this. I have two publications with very different numbers and proportions of free and paid subscribers. I mean, I write on substack as a platform for sharing my other work and am not at all obsessed with stats like I was when I was spending a lot of time on medium, but the second I read this I was making calculations about “oh, well I’ll still get a check because it’s one per profile and not one per substack” and i hate that because ten minutes ago I didn’t care about a check at all.
I hate the term bestseller, too. It was probably chosen to connect to book bestsellers, but (1) those lists are a result of a lot of gate keeping and (2) it implies people are here to sell rather than to share and connect.
I’m here to share and connect. I don’t need a badge for that, and I don’t need to see anyone else’s, either.
Also. This is a status symbol for the substack community internally. Much like medium top writer status mentioned elsewhere, it means nothing to anyone except other substack writers. Which just further removes us from our readers.
I’m a no on this one.
Badge should reward total number of readers, not just money.
I agree. My free subscribers are just as important to me. They are not second best.
Percentage/number of 100% reads is the best metric if they must insist on giving us badges. Paid subs shows you’re popular, not necessarily artistically good. A celebrity with no writing chops could get an orange/purple badge in 24 hours.
THIS. As a new writer on here, this would be a much more fun way to approach these badges. And if you were paying even the slightest bit of attention to what someone charged for their subscription and saw their readership numbers, you could figure out where they were at in the realm of “success” on Substack.
That would be better.
Total agree - I think no Badge is better, but number of readers is better than "paid subscribers"
Exactly. Especially the part about there being many more important metrics of success and influence, like open rates and engagement.
Yes, opening rate, whether subscribers stick around, I think that said more than whether or not a writer is able to monetize their writing.
I’d be wary of turning it into a competition.
This is a terrible idea.
I joined Substack to give me the impetus to write for an audience, and I'm delighted that I have subscribers who enjoy what I write. I love that you don't show how many subscribers a newsletter has. I'm not thinking of going paid - that's not why I'm here. I am also not writing to compete: I am writing because I want to write, and to do this without any pressure. I love Substack because it's always felt like a level playing field. This idea makes it feel rather different.
Well said. And I fear that it is people with this exact pure spirit- which great writers should have- who are gonna be discouraged by this the most.
This!! So much this!!
A couple of articles ago, Substack groused a little bit about the “rich get richer” mentality that social media promotes. Existing popularity is prioritized in various ways, resulting in a cascading effect for those already established while pretty much ignoring newcomers.
Substack already employs this way of thinking in articles and interviews that only promote established figures and on the discover page that prioritizes established publications. The badge thing is another step in that same direction that all social media does.
What if you turned it around, at least once in a while? What if you promoted lesser known figures? If a paid subscription comes from a small publication or a large one, Substack still gets their part. Wouldn’t that be something different as an example to the industry?
“I had a previous email list of 5k people from the blog I’ve been writing since 1998 to Substack. I’ve since grown my email list to 45k subscribers!”
Okay, I was in elementary school.
I can’t think of anyone featured who started from zero. Great point.
Oh! I like the ideas this sparks. I believe there is a place for recognition but for what? How about anniversary badges? 1/2/3 years writing?
Honestly, I’m getting a little bit put off by the current rapid fire addition of new features to substack. All of it seems to be knee jerk attempts at capitalising on all the stuff that is happening at the bird place ( you can have your own chats here too! you can have a tick here too!). Please don’t let this be another good thing on the internet that got ruined by think-tanky strategies that aim to make this place the new something else.
Sometimes the wise move is to do nothing. The substack infrastructure was in place before chats and badges. They should simply sit back and let the talent here grow the platform. Less is more,
Exactly. I can’t believe that substack is going this way when the “add lots of new features” strategy is the most prominent online disaster right now. Better to be something reliable when all else is falling apart.
I know it’s hard to argue for nothing being better than something (anything!) in the current world, especially in Silicon Valley, but it really is the case quite often.
One thing about tech places (I used to work at MS) is that everything must be constantly modified, updated, accelerated, belled and whistled in the (seemingly insane) desire to never ever let an idea go - or in the fear that some other place will do it first. It's a form of digital gluttony.
One thing I like about Substack is that it feels quite a bit simpler. It does the job it needs to do, allows writer to easily write, publish, and interact. Maybe just let it be and let people flourish for a while.
Beyond that, the whole badge thing seems off. It's going to (like most places on the internet) cause content - not artistic creation - to rule.
I left Medium for exactly that. Everything turned into a race for top writer status which meant more and more commonplace and repetitious posts crossing my feed. I hope Substack will consider reversing this trend. It's time for a new direction and a new dynamic.
Well said. I subbed to your work as well. Anyone who talks this much sense is worth reading, in my opinion.
Thank you Thomas. I do believe you just made my day. And you said somewhere in this thread about letting things stay simpler and letting people and the platform organically grow. I was sort of riffing off that and am totally with you.
Edit: "Somewhere in this thread" turns out to be right above. Depending on how I open an alert, I don't always see the whole context.
Yes. I like new features once in a while, but at the moment, I really feel that Substack is trying to become a new social media because of what's happening at Twitter's.
Substack, you're not a social media, don't try to become one. You'll lose what made you attractive in the first place and I doubt you'll gain anything from it.
Not a fan of this, tbh. The thing I like about Substack is that the number of subscribers a writer has is not freely available information (something I really dislike about social media). This changes things, and it makes it feel like the playing field isn’t entirely level anymore, which is a bummer!