We invited writer, academic, and podcaster Glenn Loury, who writes an eponymous newsletter, Glenn Loury, to share his insights on how he started making a living from Substack, expanding his community into thousands of paying subscribers. He shares his journey of migrating from other platforms, creating a consistent content strategy, developing a unique voice in a key ideological space, and continuous creative experimentation.
You're showing how someone who already had an audience and following, just grew it bigger. Of course, that is consistency and making content. How about a future topic about when you want to start something from absolute zero follows, with no current project or existing audience, social media following or community to draw initial listeners from? Most people start from nothing and have no idea how to get off the ground.
Hopefully one day that’ll be me. I had nothing starting out last year and am steadily growing. Consistency and quality are key but finding and sustaining that audience is tough. Also, he has the benefit of being a scholar and talks about current events. I’m in fiction.
I guess the key is showing up and leveling up. Dress up your Substack even for the 10 people coming.
Yes. Someone who has been podcasting since 2007 is well placed to discuss how to sustain it but not to gain it. E.g., showing readers that you read their comments by responding to them presupposes readers ARE responding with substantive comments.
Thanks for the feedback, and we certainly take this on board (so really appreciate your sharing it). To my mind, we have quite a few Grow interviews showing the "from scratch" approach, whereas Glenn had some migration from another platform plus some super interesting insights around finding your niche and building community around what you do, which is an interesting approach many others are keen to understand. There was still a "zero" moment for sure. How else would you like to see featured here?
Thank you. I just joined the platform, so this was the first email I received on topics like this. I haven't had a chance to really look around yet. I would like to see a case study where someone has an interest in something, and wants to start a substack podcast about it.
I would like to see a case where they do not currently have a mailing list, a social media following, no job that exposes them to large crowds or audiences, and no collaborations, meaning, for example, they dont co-host a podcast with someone, and now are breaking out on their own or teach at a college where they have students to pitch to.
I would like to see an absolute nobody, start from absolute zero, with nothing more than an idea, and build a substack account that provides a sufficient following and income. I would like to see the step by step, from day one at step zero, and all the steps up until success.
You’re right. I think there are no easy answers, but cultivating an active community to pull insights from experience is a huge first step. Thank you. I have to say I was on the verge of going back to my word processor and making poems for my filing cabinet as I’ve done for a lifetime before Substack appeared on my radar. I’m thankful for this opportunity and hopeful. I’d really like to write poems for free and offer paid subscribers help and support with their writing. I have time now to do this.
One thing I've recognized as a common thread in this series is that growing Substack means leveraging other outlets that have similar communities. It doesn't have to be social media. I'm hearing podcasts, interviews, videos, forums, collaborations -- there is a lot of opportunity to extend a voice elsewhere and bring it back here. In my experience when you can tap into a market of readers that are not also writers is when you find your greatest growth. Writers tend to hang with writers, artists with artists, musicians with musicians, etc., but when you can reach a group who share a love of what you do without doing it themselves they become the biggest fans.
I hear you. I just hope I’m woke. If the sleep walking I see among the unwoke is my alternative, please let me be woke. We are on the cusp of a world war because the sleep walkers are having nightmares and are angry. This is why we need to write for our readers no matter how many. Keep ourselves awake.
Agreed. I really think there have been layers applied to this that needn’t exist. Having awareness of others, their struggles, and my potential contribution is a good thing. Trigger warnings are used on every television show, so that’s not a bad thing either. I’m just going to do my thing, and if that looks “woke”, then... thanks?
i love the takeaway: Make it interesting and meaningful for yourself—if you find an audience, it’ll be interesting and meaningful for them as well.
i wrote my historical novel for myself, and began blogging about related things that interested me. i have no real expectation that anyone else will want to read it, but i hope that IF anyone does, they're meant to be there. that makes my work easier and more enjoyable.
and glen loury always has an interesting perspective to consider. looking forward to checking out his substack!
J.M., bottom line--you are right. If it’s not meaningful for the writer, it stands no chance with a reader. As a writing teacher in classrooms for many years, however, I might argue that audience is a key element in becoming and improving as a writer. I invite you to think a bit about the space between a diary and an invited publication or address. As you move along that space the act of writing changes. Writing for an audience doesn’t entail pandering or compromising. Dress it up for Substack and take a real shot. If you’ve written a historical novel you’ve got the key ingredient: discipline, which is really what consistency is about.
A critical role. Look at traditional writing instruction in public schools, which has created a citizenry that fears writing. Once you pass second grade, writing instruction becomes about paragraphs and essays--forms, not substance. Check out the historical impact of Alexander Bain, 19th century textbook writer, on single handedly changing Enlightenment writing into a machine, sidestepping ideas, intentions, content, aesthetics, language, nuance. Writers shape texts based on what the text is designed to do for or to whom. Texts of all denominations construct/invite readers/audiences. To write in a vacuum is to forego contact with and response from readers--contact essential for growth and improvement. You should check out my Substack place Shakespeare’s Monkey and take a look at the benefits of subscribing I offer my readers--free for now.
I think you are a writer, J.M. You wrote a novel. Have you read Water Music by Boyle? He writes historical novels. My favorite is either the Road to Wellville, Riven Rock, or The Women. I had a writing mentor long ago. You could benefit from finding a mentor (couldn’t we all!). Mentors don’t have to be heroes, but they have to be experienced with writing, knowledgeable, honest, and they have to hold you accountable to your intentions. They have to have the time to do it so fate is important.
i take your point about writing instruction making writing into a formulaic chore rather than a creative outlet. always a bit of a lone wolf and an autodidact, whether its learning to paint portraits, operate a backhoe, or set my own dislocated shoulder, i've usually had to learn things for myself. writing has been no different. when i write creatively, it's like when i paint--i want to solidify a representation of something i see. how others react is just what _they_ see. it's not designed to do anything for or to anyone. and i write professionally, just not fiction. i do this for fun. i've never read anything by boyle, but i'll look into it, thanks.
Ah. I see what you’re talking about. If your goal is to solidify a representation of something you see, you don’t need an audience. The act of writing or painting is clarifying and fun in itself. Go for it J.M. Getting comments from a reader or viewer probably won’t help you improve. I thought you were talking about writing as public discourse where the goal is to share a representation held in one’s mind with another mind. In such cases writing is designed to convey substance or evoke responses. Trying out particular writing strategies and then finding out if they were effective provides grist for reflection on writing processes and decisions.
Loury has been an original and fearless thinker for a while and really glad to see Substack delivering on its promise of enabling truly diverse voices. His remarks on how to be successful are true enough but the biggest factor for his success is his fearless and well reasoned content in the unfortunate intolerant climate we find ourselves in. It’s also remarkable as he points out that thinkers like him could easily be shut down and driven out from their current, traditional channels which are also their primary means of livelihood. That is a sad commentary on our intolerant culture but also a statement for why we absolutely need Substack both as a forum for free expression and also as a means to support free voices (monetarily). Kudos to Loury and Substack.
Off topic I know but being found is one of the hardest things when you are starting out. So, I wish Substack would add more categories. I struggled to find a category to fit my newsletter. I teach creative writing for absolute beginners and in the end went with 'How To' and 'Fiction' as there wasn't anything else. I'm starting another newsletter which is crime fiction and articles in a few weeks and I already know it will be hard to categorize.
A couple things I have found that help with being “found”: 1) make thoughtful comments on posts for more popular Substacks that have a similar audience to your target. I just do this anyway, not as a strategy, but it has lead many readers my way. 2) the Recommendation feature had brought me the most recent 10% of my subscriptions (of course, I am small time!!!!)
I’d say do it as a strategy. That’s where readers will come from I believe. All writers need serious, substantive feedback, pushing and pulling thinking. Being part of the process... Donald Graves taught us decades ago that making contact with an audience is critical for writers. Without comments it’s like playing baseball with just one team. Comments come from audience.
Thanks Sandie! Feel free to join tomorrow's Office Hour thread and share this too—it's a great place to air questions and feedback, and I know quite a few other writers have struggled to find the right category to fit them and have some good ideas around it. Hope to see you there!
Sandie’s comment needs to be kicked upstairs at Substack. There are two urgent opportunities to strengthen Substack affordances for writers, one small, one big. Sandie nailed the big one. Categories. When you name a category, you create boundaries that define what is possible. The “writing instruction” category should be real and viable. I saw a cool stack that provides readers with a prompt for writing poetry, one per week. What a beautiful idea. Can you imagine the potential for community? For Substack community means reader engagement.
I think the search category is of huge importance as both a reader and a contributor. When I first joined Substack as a reader I struggled to find the sort of content I was interested in.
Amen. The categories in the 'Discover' menu don't lead anywhere. It's possible to search for a word, but that's not the same as a well-linked set of tags or labels.
Thank you for sharing this. I think Loury has alot of great ideas and thoughts. When I read "wokebusters" I signed up for a year. I would not have realized he was on Substack without this series.
I want to write on Substack. I'm vision-impaired; it's a struggle to write, but I can. I'm elderly and don't know how or even wish to learn the process of business. Substack would grow massively by offering people like me a COMPLETE SETUP template that makes the entire process sleek and streamlined, so all I do is write, hit the button to publish
thanks, professor glenn! do you enjoy being one of the only black voices inyour ideological space? or do you wish to expand the number of black voices in your ideological space exponentially?
You're showing how someone who already had an audience and following, just grew it bigger. Of course, that is consistency and making content. How about a future topic about when you want to start something from absolute zero follows, with no current project or existing audience, social media following or community to draw initial listeners from? Most people start from nothing and have no idea how to get off the ground.
Hopefully one day that’ll be me. I had nothing starting out last year and am steadily growing. Consistency and quality are key but finding and sustaining that audience is tough. Also, he has the benefit of being a scholar and talks about current events. I’m in fiction.
I guess the key is showing up and leveling up. Dress up your Substack even for the 10 people coming.
Yes. Someone who has been podcasting since 2007 is well placed to discuss how to sustain it but not to gain it. E.g., showing readers that you read their comments by responding to them presupposes readers ARE responding with substantive comments.
Thanks for the feedback, and we certainly take this on board (so really appreciate your sharing it). To my mind, we have quite a few Grow interviews showing the "from scratch" approach, whereas Glenn had some migration from another platform plus some super interesting insights around finding your niche and building community around what you do, which is an interesting approach many others are keen to understand. There was still a "zero" moment for sure. How else would you like to see featured here?
Thank you. I just joined the platform, so this was the first email I received on topics like this. I haven't had a chance to really look around yet. I would like to see a case study where someone has an interest in something, and wants to start a substack podcast about it.
I would like to see a case where they do not currently have a mailing list, a social media following, no job that exposes them to large crowds or audiences, and no collaborations, meaning, for example, they dont co-host a podcast with someone, and now are breaking out on their own or teach at a college where they have students to pitch to.
I would like to see an absolute nobody, start from absolute zero, with nothing more than an idea, and build a substack account that provides a sufficient following and income. I would like to see the step by step, from day one at step zero, and all the steps up until success.
Exactly where I'm at today. I'm a nobody Hopefully I'll reach just one person, An income for writing? Well, that would be a gift!
You’re right. I think there are no easy answers, but cultivating an active community to pull insights from experience is a huge first step. Thank you. I have to say I was on the verge of going back to my word processor and making poems for my filing cabinet as I’ve done for a lifetime before Substack appeared on my radar. I’m thankful for this opportunity and hopeful. I’d really like to write poems for free and offer paid subscribers help and support with their writing. I have time now to do this.
No matter where I go for advice on growing an audience, consistency is at the top of the list. Quality follows.
Substack please ask the open rates during the grow series. It will really help us out, especially if a substack has over 10k subscribers.
This is a cool idea, we'll be sure to ask in the next interview, thanks for the feedback too!
Thank you so much. It will help us gauge as we all grow our individual Substacks.
40 to 60% for Glenn.
Thanks for sharing that Nikita! Is that what you expected YouTopian?
One thing I've recognized as a common thread in this series is that growing Substack means leveraging other outlets that have similar communities. It doesn't have to be social media. I'm hearing podcasts, interviews, videos, forums, collaborations -- there is a lot of opportunity to extend a voice elsewhere and bring it back here. In my experience when you can tap into a market of readers that are not also writers is when you find your greatest growth. Writers tend to hang with writers, artists with artists, musicians with musicians, etc., but when you can reach a group who share a love of what you do without doing it themselves they become the biggest fans.
I have never seen a term or ideal as hijacked as “woke”. Wow. What exactly is the woke movement? It used to be a meme wrapped in kente.
I hear you. I just hope I’m woke. If the sleep walking I see among the unwoke is my alternative, please let me be woke. We are on the cusp of a world war because the sleep walkers are having nightmares and are angry. This is why we need to write for our readers no matter how many. Keep ourselves awake.
Agreed. I really think there have been layers applied to this that needn’t exist. Having awareness of others, their struggles, and my potential contribution is a good thing. Trigger warnings are used on every television show, so that’s not a bad thing either. I’m just going to do my thing, and if that looks “woke”, then... thanks?
i love the takeaway: Make it interesting and meaningful for yourself—if you find an audience, it’ll be interesting and meaningful for them as well.
i wrote my historical novel for myself, and began blogging about related things that interested me. i have no real expectation that anyone else will want to read it, but i hope that IF anyone does, they're meant to be there. that makes my work easier and more enjoyable.
and glen loury always has an interesting perspective to consider. looking forward to checking out his substack!
J.M., bottom line--you are right. If it’s not meaningful for the writer, it stands no chance with a reader. As a writing teacher in classrooms for many years, however, I might argue that audience is a key element in becoming and improving as a writer. I invite you to think a bit about the space between a diary and an invited publication or address. As you move along that space the act of writing changes. Writing for an audience doesn’t entail pandering or compromising. Dress it up for Substack and take a real shot. If you’ve written a historical novel you’ve got the key ingredient: discipline, which is really what consistency is about.
what role would you say audience plays in becoming and improving as a writer?
A critical role. Look at traditional writing instruction in public schools, which has created a citizenry that fears writing. Once you pass second grade, writing instruction becomes about paragraphs and essays--forms, not substance. Check out the historical impact of Alexander Bain, 19th century textbook writer, on single handedly changing Enlightenment writing into a machine, sidestepping ideas, intentions, content, aesthetics, language, nuance. Writers shape texts based on what the text is designed to do for or to whom. Texts of all denominations construct/invite readers/audiences. To write in a vacuum is to forego contact with and response from readers--contact essential for growth and improvement. You should check out my Substack place Shakespeare’s Monkey and take a look at the benefits of subscribing I offer my readers--free for now.
I think you are a writer, J.M. You wrote a novel. Have you read Water Music by Boyle? He writes historical novels. My favorite is either the Road to Wellville, Riven Rock, or The Women. I had a writing mentor long ago. You could benefit from finding a mentor (couldn’t we all!). Mentors don’t have to be heroes, but they have to be experienced with writing, knowledgeable, honest, and they have to hold you accountable to your intentions. They have to have the time to do it so fate is important.
i take your point about writing instruction making writing into a formulaic chore rather than a creative outlet. always a bit of a lone wolf and an autodidact, whether its learning to paint portraits, operate a backhoe, or set my own dislocated shoulder, i've usually had to learn things for myself. writing has been no different. when i write creatively, it's like when i paint--i want to solidify a representation of something i see. how others react is just what _they_ see. it's not designed to do anything for or to anyone. and i write professionally, just not fiction. i do this for fun. i've never read anything by boyle, but i'll look into it, thanks.
Ah. I see what you’re talking about. If your goal is to solidify a representation of something you see, you don’t need an audience. The act of writing or painting is clarifying and fun in itself. Go for it J.M. Getting comments from a reader or viewer probably won’t help you improve. I thought you were talking about writing as public discourse where the goal is to share a representation held in one’s mind with another mind. In such cases writing is designed to convey substance or evoke responses. Trying out particular writing strategies and then finding out if they were effective provides grist for reflection on writing processes and decisions.
Loury has been an original and fearless thinker for a while and really glad to see Substack delivering on its promise of enabling truly diverse voices. His remarks on how to be successful are true enough but the biggest factor for his success is his fearless and well reasoned content in the unfortunate intolerant climate we find ourselves in. It’s also remarkable as he points out that thinkers like him could easily be shut down and driven out from their current, traditional channels which are also their primary means of livelihood. That is a sad commentary on our intolerant culture but also a statement for why we absolutely need Substack both as a forum for free expression and also as a means to support free voices (monetarily). Kudos to Loury and Substack.
Thank you for your feedback Reena!
Off topic I know but being found is one of the hardest things when you are starting out. So, I wish Substack would add more categories. I struggled to find a category to fit my newsletter. I teach creative writing for absolute beginners and in the end went with 'How To' and 'Fiction' as there wasn't anything else. I'm starting another newsletter which is crime fiction and articles in a few weeks and I already know it will be hard to categorize.
A couple things I have found that help with being “found”: 1) make thoughtful comments on posts for more popular Substacks that have a similar audience to your target. I just do this anyway, not as a strategy, but it has lead many readers my way. 2) the Recommendation feature had brought me the most recent 10% of my subscriptions (of course, I am small time!!!!)
I’d say do it as a strategy. That’s where readers will come from I believe. All writers need serious, substantive feedback, pushing and pulling thinking. Being part of the process... Donald Graves taught us decades ago that making contact with an audience is critical for writers. Without comments it’s like playing baseball with just one team. Comments come from audience.
Thank you, I will open my comment section up too as I haven't yet.
That's great to hear about recommendations! A lot of other writers are finding this too so we hope more will adopt and try out this feature!
Thank you for the suggestions.
Thanks Sandie! Feel free to join tomorrow's Office Hour thread and share this too—it's a great place to air questions and feedback, and I know quite a few other writers have struggled to find the right category to fit them and have some good ideas around it. Hope to see you there!
Sandie’s comment needs to be kicked upstairs at Substack. There are two urgent opportunities to strengthen Substack affordances for writers, one small, one big. Sandie nailed the big one. Categories. When you name a category, you create boundaries that define what is possible. The “writing instruction” category should be real and viable. I saw a cool stack that provides readers with a prompt for writing poetry, one per week. What a beautiful idea. Can you imagine the potential for community? For Substack community means reader engagement.
I think the search category is of huge importance as both a reader and a contributor. When I first joined Substack as a reader I struggled to find the sort of content I was interested in.
Amen. The categories in the 'Discover' menu don't lead anywhere. It's possible to search for a word, but that's not the same as a well-linked set of tags or labels.
Good feedback thanks!
Thank you for sharing this. I think Loury has alot of great ideas and thoughts. When I read "wokebusters" I signed up for a year. I would not have realized he was on Substack without this series.
Glad to have helped you discover Glenn's work here Maura!
Fascinating, I will check it out..
Useful info..
I want to write on Substack. I'm vision-impaired; it's a struggle to write, but I can. I'm elderly and don't know how or even wish to learn the process of business. Substack would grow massively by offering people like me a COMPLETE SETUP template that makes the entire process sleek and streamlined, so all I do is write, hit the button to publish
He's a first.
inequality for you or children
thanks, professor glenn! do you enjoy being one of the only black voices inyour ideological space? or do you wish to expand the number of black voices in your ideological space exponentially?
Thank you for sharing this. I like the keeping it consistent and improving from there advice. All the best